"Fight Girl" star, Kourtney McCarty, speaks about women in Muay Thai
and her experience of fighting in Thailand

Interview by Pam Peterson

Q: How long have you been training in Muay Thai and what prompted you to start?  Did you train in any other martial arts before beginning Muay Thai? (What ranks do you hold)

 Kourtney: I’ve been training for about 4 years or so. I had never trained in martial arts before, and really, I wasn’t much of an athlete. I have no idea what prompted me to start Muay Thai. I think it just sounded like fun.

Q: Were did you begin training Muay Thai?

Kourtney: I began training Muay Thai in Bloomington, Indiana at Monroe County Martial Arts. Dave Miller and Brian Heeter were my primary instructors.

Q: Where do you train now?

Kourtney:  Currently, I train at Family Kickboxing in Miami, FL with Manolo Lopez (Raul’s instructor) and at American TKA in Fort Lauderdale with my fiancé Raul Llopis.

Q: When did you first become associated with the TBA and Ajarn Chai?

Kourtney: I had been training a few months and Dave told us about an upcoming seminar with his instructor, Ajarn Chai.  I was really starting to get into training, so I thought I’d give it a try. I remember feeling like I was going to throw up before the seminar, then crying after the first day. But, I fell in love with Ajarn Chai. I think soon after, I became an “official” member of the TBA. 

Q: Are you ranked within the TBA organization?  If so, what level are you? 

Kourtney: I’m considered a Level 1 something or another. I took one test.

Q: Do you remember your thoughts during and after your first lessons of Muay Thai?

Kourtney: I started at a really great time in Bloomington. It was either just before or just after Christmas, so all of the students were gone. This means, I kind of got thrown in with the advanced students since the class was so small. I remember learning how to move as well as throw my jab and my right cross my first class. I remember after that, I went home and practiced in front of the mirror for like 30 minutes. This amused my roommate to no end. He started calling me Iron Mike. I also remember how easy it was for me to relax, make mistakes, and learn. This has nothing to do with any sort of natural talent I possessed, because really, I’m rather uncoordinated. It was the instructor. Dave has a real gift for teaching. He has the ability to work with anyone on any level and make them feel that they can achieve anything with enough time and practice. And he’s willing (same goes for Brian) to hang in there with you as you struggle. There was always a big net of support at MCMA.

Q: What do you think was (is) the most difficult for you to learn?

Kourtney: Well, how much space do I have? Patience. Controlling my frustration and anger. Really, fighting and training is all mental. It’s what I struggle with the most. When I get in the ring, I’m not really fighting my opponent. I’m fighting myself. I’m fighting my insecurities. I tend to get down on myself a lot, and it’s hard to rein that in.

Q: What are some of your favorite (and not so favorite) memories of training/learning Muay Thai?

Kourtney: Wow. That’s a very difficult question. My first Ajarn Chai seminar. My first Saekson Janjira seminar. Training in Thailand. All of the amazing and wonderful people I have met from all over the world because of this sport. In particular, I’ll always remember my first fight. It was messy, it was kind of crazy at times, and I looked kind of silly. But, what I loved most was coming back to my corner after winning to see the look on everyone’s face. Julie Kedzie, Brian Heeter and Raul were all in my corner. They were so proud!

But, my best Muay Thai moment would definitely have to be warming up in a ring in Fort Wayne, Indiana, waiting for the instructor (who the other students said was always running late) to show up and teach class. It was my first class. I stood up to stretch and he walked through the door wearing a red warm-up jacket. I almost fell out of the ring. I thought to myself, “There is no way I can train with this man – he’s too beautiful.” That instructor was Raul Llopis and we’re getting married this year.

Q: Lots of exciting things are happening in your future!!!  Can you fill us in on a few of those? (wedding plans, relocation plans)

Kourtney: My life, as usual, is total chaos! I’m in the process of moving down to Miami where Raul is waiting for me. We of course have no home (he’s with friends right now). We also plan to get married this year. No date yet, because we’re disorganized. However, it will happen this year, somewhere on the beach. Right now, life is good.

Q: The interest in Muay Thai in the states appears almost like a forest fire gone rampant.  Just a few years ago, not many knew what Muay Thai was other then maybe a form of “kickboxing”, and now, it seems as if almost every one knows of it.  Do you agree? 

Kourtney: I think it really depends where you are, but I definitely agree that it is becoming more familiar and popular. Unfortunately, there’s still a lot of confusion. There are so many different organizations and sanctioning bodies and so many different sets of rules. You have Muay Thai of course, but then there’s kickboxing, American kickboxing, full-contact, etc.  I don’t even know what those styles involve, so I understand why everyone else is confused, as well. And unfortunately, Muay Thai seems to just get lumped in with these different styles.

Q: What do you think has contributed to this huge awareness to the national sport of Thailand?  How do you think the TBA has played a part in the expanding interest of Muay Thai?

Kourtney:  I think there are several things. I think the UFC reality show and craze has really helped because many of those fighters have Muay Thai backgrounds. Also, students and instructors that are incredibly passionate about the sport – those who dedicate the time, energy and money (even if they don’t have a whole lot) to put on quality shows – are really the backbone of this growing popularity. The TBA has definitely played a part in this growing popularity because of the quality of instructors, students, and fighters that it produces.  Ajarn Chai travels constantly – all over the world – and his students see the sacrifices he makes to promote this sport, and they simply follow in his lead. I love that the TBA encourages everyone to just work together for the greater good, regardless of whom you’re affiliated with.

Q: What are your thoughts about females training Muay Thai and competing in the ring?

Kourtney: I highly encourage any female who has the slightest desire to get in the ring to go for it. I know there’s a stigma about women getting punched, kicked, elbowed, and kneed in the face or beat up at all. But I think a friend of mine really put it into perspective for me. She explained that she used to get nervous about the pain associated with fighting, and then she realized, “Hey, I’ve already been through childbirth twice. It will never be THAT bad.”

Q: How far do you want to go with your training of Muay Thai? 

Kourtney: I think regardless of if I’m fighting, training Muay Thai will always be a part of my life. But, for now, I just want to keep fighting and improving. I would love to coach a kids’ fight team.

Q:You were recently cast on the reality show, "Fight Girls".  Can you tell us what was involved in the application process for the casting of the Oxygen network’s reality show?

Kourtney: I basically filled out a rather involved application with questions like “If you were a superhero, what would your superhero name be?” and “What was your childhood like?” etc. Then, I submitted a tape of me training (sparring, bag work, shadow boxing, pad work, etc.) plus one of my fights.

Q: How were you notified that you were selected and what went through your head when you found out?

Kourtney: At first, they called to tell me I was a finalist – that it was down to 20 girls and that they’d be picking 7. When I heard that, I almost threw up. They told me I’d hear back in 10 days. When I didn’t hear anything in 10 days, I figured I just hadn’t been chosen and really, I put it out of my mind. But then, 2 weeks later, I received a call at work from the producers. I was told I would be flying out to Las Vegas in 2 weeks where I would train for one month. Then, by the end of the month, Master Toddy would choose 3 girls to travel with him to Thailand to fight Thai opponents. My mind went absolutely numb. I was excited and terrified all at the same time. I called Raul who said, “I told you so.” I remember driving home from work (I had about a 30 minute drive) thinking “This is not my life.”

Q: What can you tell us about your "Fight Girls" experience?

Kourtney: I can tell you that I had an unbelievable time in Las Vegas training at Master Toddy’s gym. The women I trained with are some of the coolest people I’ve ever met, and I learned something from each and every one of them. They became like sisters to me, and it’s something I’ll never forget. 

Q: “Fight Girls” has now aired and those of us associated with the TBA would love to know more details!  What was it like during the training sessions in Vegas?

 Kourtney: We trained twice at a day, six days a week at Master Toddy’s gym. There were seven girls who were a part of the reality movie. So, we primarily trained together with Master Toddy and three of his trainers. We also had the opportunity to train at night with Master Toddy’s regular classes. The training was definitely intense. Knowing that our goal was to fight in Thailand, we focused a lot on clinch because we knew the girls would want to clinch and throw knees with us. There were days when I woke up and couldn’t move because I was so sore. I always had a big bruise and cut or scrape somewhere on my body. The best part about it was the support among all of the girls. We really helped each other out when things were rough. It didn’t feel like a competition, because I think we all had the common goal of just improving. Going to Thailand would be an added (and awesome) bonus.

Q: How long were you in Vegas before going to Thailand?

Kourtney: One month.

Q: How were the final girls chosen to go to Thailand? Who choose them?  Was it an elimination of types or did Master Toddy just make a decision after watching everyone for a month? 

Kourtney: Master Toddy chose who would go to Thailand. I’m not entirely sure what he based his decision on. I know it was a difficult one to make. He told me that I was chosen because he saw not only an improvement in how I trained, but that I was very serious, determined and dedicated. Several other trainers commented on that as well – I was pretty much all business when I was training. Though really, I think that was just so no one could see how nervous I was!

Q: Was this the first time you have been to Thailand?  Where did the filming take place?

Kourtney: Yes, this was my first time in Thailand. We arrived in Bangkok and stayed there about 4 days then flew down to Phuket, where the fight was, for about 5 days. They put us up in some really sweet hotels and resorts. I certainly couldn’t complain about that! The film crew was essentially always around, but it certainly wasn’t as “in your face” as other reality type shows.

Q: How is Thailand different from the states and what were your days like?

Kourtney: It’s a totally different world over there, though I didn’t notice it as much until the cameras left and it was just me and Raul. We decided to stay for about 3 more weeks after the fight. With Raul, our days consisted of training twice a day and just exploring. We trained in Pattaya then in Bangpleeyai at Fairtex. The Thais are warm, friendly people. And I really learned that you can have entire conversations with a little bit of English and a whole lot of sign language. They loved that we loved their national sport, and were more than willing to help us out.

Q: Tell us about your fight in Thailand and what thoughts were going through your head.

Kourtney: Possibly one of the most surreal experiences of my life. We got to the stadium and were taken into a dressing room with about 10 Thai supermodels. I think they were part of the event. It was hot and crowded and the cameras were everywhere. My response to all of this was just to really go into my own head. Raul made the comment that I had never looked so calm before a fight. And really, I wasn’t that nervous. I think that was because it was just all so weird. I had met my opponent the day before, and I knew I was in for a tough fight. But, I figured I had nothing to lose, really. It was also great being with a team of girls who were feeling the same things as me. It was a great support network. Plus, I felt really confident knowing that Master Toddy, my other trainer Nigon, Raul, and Tony Briton were in my corner. I also felt really confident about the training I had up to that point. I knew Master Toddy wouldn’t have asked me to do something he didn’t think I could handle. He became like a father to us.

The best advice I’ve ever received (and I’ve now heard it several times from different people) is that when you get in the ring, the first thing you should do is smile. I was walking down the runway to the ring and I could hear the audience cheering and booing, though I ignored that, and I just decided to take it all in. So, I waved and I smiled. It really calmed me down.

I don’t remember much about the first round, though I think it was pretty even. During the second round of the fight, there was  moment when she had me in the corner and I thought, if I keep my hands down she’ll either knock me out or they’re going to thrown in the towel, and for a split second I thought that seemed like a good idea. I took a lot of punishment that round. Fortunately, I got my head out of my ass, and decided to fight back. After the round, I sat down on my stool and I just start grinning. I was really having a good time and I couldn’t wait to get out there for the third round. The third round was pretty much my round – I was really sick of getting punched in the face by her, and I got really aggressive.

Q: Did Raul get to be out there, or what were the living arrangements in Vegas?

Kourtney: Three of us (Tina, Ariana and I) stayed together in a house out in Vegas. We could have visitors, talk to friends, etc. Sometimes, they would ask to tape our conversations. We were allowed to have visitors. My roommate Tina had her husband come to visit. Raul was unable to come visit, but he did fly out to Thailand for my fight. We were able to watch TV, but not when the cameras were around. The cameras weren’t really in our faces that much. The producers we worked with have a lot of reality experience, including the first Survivor. They informed us that regarding the amount of camera intrusion, we were very, very fortunate. They took it easy on us. Now, this did not stop me from complaining, however…

It wasn’t bad. They would let us know when they’d be around. Then, we’d also be taped in interview formats where they would ask us questions about how we were feeling, what we thought of our training, etc. The camera crew was great. 

Q: Did you get to stay in a cool house like the other reality shows have?

Kourtney: We indeed get to stay in a totally cool house. They hooked us up. We each had our own bathroom. Tina got the master suite (after defeating Ariana in a death match of rock, paper, scissors) and she even had a huge Jacuzzi-like tub. She was very generous with it, though. After my first meltdown in the gym (I was crying and hyperventilating), she suggested I soak for awhile. Then, in Thailand we stayed in an amazing resort in Phuket. It was right on the beach and it also had 2 swimming pools, plus amazing food and totally awesome massage ladies. One night after training, we decided to go into the sea to swim a bit. It was at night but the water felt like a warm bath and there was a gentle breeze. Lisa and I decided that 10 minutes in a ring against a tough opponent was a perfectly fine tradeoff for a week in paradise. Hell, for that experience, I would have fought 2 times!

Q: How do you feel about your overall performance with the show’s competition?

Kourtney: In general, I’m very happy with how everything turned out. I performed how I knew I would. For better or for worse, I’m a very real person. I can’t hide my feelings or emotions, and I know a lot of that came out for the camera. I’m happy with what I learned and how I improved. I’m also very happy with my fight even though I lost the decision and after watching the tape, it was the right decision. It was only my 4th fight, my second without protection, and my first with elbows (love them!) and 6 oz. gloves (definitely love those!), so I think I faired really well. She had a lot more experience than me, and was a great fighter. I went in there with the least amount of experience compared to the other girls. That actually occurred to me when I was in Bangkok – about 1 week before the fight. I looked at Gina and said, “Hmmm, this is my first fight with full Muay Thai rules, my second with no pads, and I bet I have a lot less experience than my opponent.” She agreed. Then I said, “Well, I guess I won’t let THAT stop me.”   I fought my heart out. I can’t complain.

Q: Do you plan on fighting again?

Kourtney: Definitely. But I may have to insist on throwing elbows. And of course, riding on a goat truck to promote the fight. We did that the day before our fight in Thailand. It was an odd experience, but kind of like a pep rally. It was really good energy!

Q: Would you encourage other women to do the same thing, if given the opportunity?

Kourtney:  Hands down, without a doubt. This was one of the best things I’ve ever done. And even if I hadn’t been chosen to go to Thailand, I would say the same thing. I think one of the things I love most about training Muay Thai is the people I’ve met along the way. Master Toddy, the other trainers, and the girls I was with all touched my heart and my life in a very profound way.

Q: Do you have any final thoughts or words of encouragement for others that are just starting training?

Kourtney:  Whatever you do, never give up. Looking back with regret is something you never want to do. If you want to fight – fight. Don’t let anyone tell you that you can’t. I’ve found that there are people who train and fight one way in the gym then jump into the ring and turn into someone completely different. That’s the beauty of this sport. It’s very revealing.